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par10
P Plater
78 Posts
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 Posted - 05 Mar 2007 : 2:44:51 PM
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Hey all,
I'm looking at getting my executive lowered in the next week or two. Now, suspension is the one area of cars i've never been too good with... I'm looking at a 2" drop all round from the standard height, and am not wanting anything special to make serious improvements to handling. Just wondering exactly what needs to be changed on the car to achieve the drop. All of the suspension is in excellent condition, including all bushes. Is it just the struts/springs that need changing, or is there more? I don't wanna get screwed around, thats all, my brother had a bad experience a couple of years ago.
Cheers, Nick.
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MILD50
Fully Licenced
850 Posts
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Posted - 06 Mar 2007 : 12:05:50 AM
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Relistically, it could be as simple as throwing in some lowered springs (not chopped!). This will work, give the lowered height and I believe won't compromise legality provided it doesn't go past the legal ride height limitations.
It isn't ideal however, as the shocks and struts will not be best suited to the new spring. You could live without it, but depending on how deep your pockets are is how much you could actually improve the ride and handling aswell as obtaining the look of a lowered stance. |
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VNSVLE
Forum Moderator
1316 Posts
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mouce
National Driver
1525 Posts
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Posted - 07 Mar 2007 : 12:23:59 PM
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Springs, shocks/struts, adjustable panhard rod and a wheel alignment.
That's the minimum you'll need to drop your car.
It will handle better, but to get the most out of it, a strut tower bar, uprated sway bars (front and rear) and a link pin conversion kit for the front end would be well worth it.
Before you go nuts dropping your car, check with your insurance company first. I found that AAMI were not going to cover me and that was only a 1" drop. RACV were happy with anything up to and including a 30mm drop, after that you'll need to look at places like JustCar. I hope you've got deep pockets, insurance will get pricey.
To save a few dollars on the drop, check out the how-to section, the rear end is EASY to do yourself. The front takes a bit more effort, and there's going to be a how-to on there soon for the front end. |
Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like hell - Peter Brock (1945-2006) |
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MILD50
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850 Posts
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Posted - 07 Mar 2007 : 2:48:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mouce
Springs, shocks/struts, adjustable panhard rod and a wheel alignment.
Yup- this is pretty much what I was saying in order to improve ride aswell as lower.
Springs are still the extremely, very, very bare minimum. Everyone has seen Commodores done like this (and it isn't quite as dire as some people may believe). |
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mouce
National Driver
1525 Posts
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Posted - 07 Mar 2007 : 5:56:33 PM
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Actually, it depends on what tyres you've got on there. I've got 225's and they would have rubbed had I not put the adjustable pan-hard rod in. That's only with a 1" drop.
If you want to do a 2" drop and not replace your pan-hard rod, you'll be limited to about a 205 tyre, otherwise you'll end up rubbing.
Also, with a 2" drop, because you'll be running on shocks that are too long, it's very easy to 'bottom out' the shocks which essentially drives the piston through the bottom of the shock casing, puncturing the shock and leading you to be driving on springs and nothing else (which is really cool for the first 5 meters, then after that you get sea sick). To keep using the original shocks/struts safely you shouldn't go any more than 1" lower than standard.
Plus, it's a legal requirement that at full suspension travel your springs must be captive, with the original shocks in the back with 2" lowered springs I believe that it's possible to have them fall out. Needless to say this is not only illegal, but damn dangerous as well.
Do it once, do it right. Shocks/struts don't cost that much extra. |
Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like hell - Peter Brock (1945-2006) |
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MILD50
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850 Posts
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Posted - 07 Mar 2007 : 6:45:07 PM
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| Slightly begging to differ but you are essentially pretty much totally correct. However, I drove for two years and a great deal of kms with no damage and just 2" lowered springs- that was on 225s as well. The only thing that **** me eventually was ride quality. |
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par10
P Plater
78 Posts
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Posted - 07 Mar 2007 : 7:45:19 PM
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| I was planning on doing the shocks and springs. I'm only running 205's on chaser rims at the moment, but i've got some black/polished walky rims with 225's that will be going on once its lowered, so i will be needing the panhard rod. Clearance was my only real worry with the 2" drop, but doesn't appear it will be an issue with the panhard rod. I've got about $1000 put aside to do everything, realistically shouldn't be that much. If so, i'll do some myself. Cheers for you help so far guys, you're all champs! |
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mouce
National Driver
1525 Posts
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Posted - 08 Mar 2007 : 08:15:12 AM
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| For $1000, you should be able to get pretty much everything on my list (up above). If you leave off the strut tower bar and the link pin conversion kit you should be able to pick it all up for just under a grand (that's trade prices by the way). Then you can just fit everything up the back yourself, fitting the FRONT swaybar is a piece of cake. Then just take it to a mechanic and get them to fit the fronts. Simple way to do a REALLY nice job on the suspension. |
Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like hell - Peter Brock (1945-2006) |
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MILD50
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850 Posts
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Posted - 08 Mar 2007 : 2:29:49 PM
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| Just for a short hi-jack, what is the part called used to do a similar job as a strut brace but without the bar crossing the bay? It just kinda sits on the strut top and holds it so much squarer? |
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mouce
National Driver
1525 Posts
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Posted - 11 Mar 2007 : 10:05:40 AM
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Uh...they don't do the same job. What you're thinking about are the adjustable strut top mounts, they just make it easier to adjust the front wheel alignment.
The advantage of the brace is that it links the two sides of the bay which stops them flexing. |
Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like hell - Peter Brock (1945-2006) |
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MILD50
Fully Licenced
850 Posts
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Posted - 11 Mar 2007 : 2:18:06 PM
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I thought you could get like a reinforcement brace for each side of the bay without running the strut across it?
Well aware how a strut brace works ;) |
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mouce
National Driver
1525 Posts
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Posted - 12 Mar 2007 : 10:19:45 AM
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Since you know how the strut brace works, you'll know that without a physical link between the two sides of the engine bay, you can't get the same (or even similar) results.
It might be possible to put some bracing on each side, but I've never heard of it being done, it would look like poo, and wouldn't be that effective. |
Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like hell - Peter Brock (1945-2006) |
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par10
P Plater
78 Posts
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Posted - 12 Mar 2007 : 4:25:25 PM
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| While we're on this subject, is it legal to have a car lowered in the back and at standard ride height in the front? I'm after the pro-street sort of stance, if its allowed... I'm only looking at about a 2" difference.. |
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MILD50
Fully Licenced
850 Posts
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Posted - 13 Mar 2007 : 3:52:33 PM
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Ok- I had a bit of a look see on the net and this is what I came up with:
My idea of a strut brace is something that prevents the struts from leaning inwards during spirited driving- something that the Pedder's website backs me up on. A lot of people seem to think they are the exact trick for firming up a front end with the added rigidity and although they do help out somewhat- most of this is taken care of by the sway bars which is backed up by the K-Mac website.
Maybe our ideas differ a little- I'll keep the sway bars for keeping my front end nice and rigid during cornering and I'll look into the K-Mac adjustable kit to take care of the struts... it does the same thing (keeps the struts nice and square) without the bar across the engine bay- exactly what I was looking for!
And please don't read that as being smug- but you inspired me to have a closer look and this is what I found. |
Edited by - MILD50 on 13 Mar 2007 4:17:33 PM |
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mouce
National Driver
1525 Posts
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Posted - 14 Mar 2007 : 12:48:14 PM
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I always encourage research, after all I'm a scientist.
The sway bars DO make a huge difference to the front end, they make everything a lot more stable, but the strut tower bar makes everything a little stiffer, and I've found that it's actually stopped the body twisting in corners.
Before fitting the strut tower bar I used to get some 'interesting' noises from my dash as it flexed in corners, after the bar there were no noises from it.
And I have fitted both the strut tower bar and the sway bar. I've tested BOTH individually and while each on their own do fix various problems, they do have some 'unique' ones to themselves. So the only way to get a really nice stiff front end is to fit both.
The VN has enough flex in the front end that I've seen the plastic guard under the windscreen wipers actually split because of flexing in corners. The Swaybar stiffens that chassis and the suspension, the strut tower bar stiffens the body.
@par10: as far as I know there's no RWC issues with it, so long as the spring rate is changed so that the ratio remains the same. However, getting insurance for it will be almost impossible. Also, if you're going to do that, don't forget that you'll need to readjust your head-lights. Personally I'd drop it so that if you go down 2" at the back you drop the front 1" minimum. Otherwise you just look like you've got a few bags of cement in the boot, and that just looks sh!t. |
Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like hell - Peter Brock (1945-2006) |
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par10
P Plater
78 Posts
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Posted - 14 Mar 2007 : 4:20:48 PM
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| I threw some 25kg bags in the boot to get a rough idea, a bit of a difference looked pretty good , but then again its still sitting WAY too high in the front... It was just a thought, i'll probably just drop it all round, and do a decent job of it. That way i'll have what i really want - a very good handling car. |
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MILD50
Fully Licenced
850 Posts
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Posted - 14 Mar 2007 : 7:08:49 PM
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| I'll be going after market sway bars and using the K-Mac kit- that will give me the same result without the bar. |
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mouce
National Driver
1525 Posts
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Posted - 14 Mar 2007 : 8:52:58 PM
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| Doubt it would be the exact same result as the physics behind the two are VERY different, but it's still going to be a massive improvement over stock. |
Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like hell - Peter Brock (1945-2006) |
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MILD50
Fully Licenced
850 Posts
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Posted - 16 Mar 2007 : 1:32:10 PM
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| Not too sure its all that different- one uses a bar to prevent strut flex and one uses a different system. Not entirely sure how it works but can safely say it does. |
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