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rusty
Learner
8 Posts
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 Posted - 21 Jan 2013 : 2:41:11 PM
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But with this VN, the issue is that it will start and then stall like it's not getting enough fuel to keep it going and it won't rev high like it would if you had a choke. Putting foot on throttle only makes it stall. Can only make it keep running if moving the actual throttle from the engine compartment.
Things that have been replaced and checked as ok:
Harmonic Balance and Crank Angle Sensor replaced
Coil pack (series 2) checked and ok
relays checked and ok
fuel pump checked and ok
When Harmonic Balance and crank Angle sensor was replaced it ran for a day then next day it wouldn't start again. Every time we replaced something, would run for that day and next day wouldn't run again or start normally, without the doing the throttle in the engine compartment. When running it's a smooth as a baby's behind...not a miss, nothing, excellent running!
A couple of times it stalled while driving...
this has got my hubby (mechanic) and other mechanic's in our area stumped. What's worse is that the mechanics in our area don't have the computer to check these old 1990 - 1993 model commodores so the computer in the passenger side of the car has to be apparently taken out and sent away! typical outback town most likely for ya!
Any suggestions would be most appreciated!
Thanks
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 21 Jan 2013 : 3:35:56 PM
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There's a "how to" to interrogate the engine computer on this site. You don't need any tools more sophisticated than a paperclip and a screwdriver to pull up the "fault codes:"
http://www.vncommodore.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=450
If the problem isn't electronic then check the fuel system from the fuel filter onwards. There's a little vacuum servo on the fuel line known as the fuel pressure regulator. There's another potential bug. If the fuel pressure regulator is buggered, it may stall at idle, and will splutter and definitely stop at some point if you rev it. If you don't get the answer from either of these two, keep giving us more detail and between us we can hopefully solve it |
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VNSVLE
Forum Moderator
1316 Posts
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Posted - 21 Jan 2013 : 8:35:11 PM
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Is the engine light on??
If so check the codes as said above and it should point you in the right direction.
Another thing to check is the IAC (Idle air control valve) on the throttle body making sure that the little port that it uses is not blocked.
Does it idle?? |
What's the difference between understeer and oversteer?
Understeer is when the driver is scared.
Oversteer is when the passenger is scared. |
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rusty
Learner
8 Posts
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Posted - 21 Jan 2013 : 10:37:52 PM
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Thanks guys, I remember reading the 'how to interrogate the engine computer' thread...will get hubby to look at that...
Since replacing the Harmonic Balance and CAS no engine light comes on, but it used to before.
Forgot to also add that the Fuel pressure regulator was one of the other things that was replaced. Every time we replaced something it would run like a dream for the day and then the next morning when going to start it, the exact same issue as before replacing anything...only thing left now is the computer and I think this may very well be the issue but then if the computer was the issue wouldn't it not even go?
Something is not connecting after 12 to 24 hours with this car after it's been overhauled and I'm telling you guys, it's nearly a new motor now!
Thank you's sooo much for your responses!
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 21 Jan 2013 : 11:23:30 PM
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Another quick note to add: when your hubby interrogates the engine computer, and NO light comes up, the bulb might be blown. To get to it is relatively simple. There are four screws holding the instrument cluster cover in, and two more mountings behind the fascia. Under each of the switch clusters on the dash (wipers on one side, headlights on the other) is a single screw. Two more on the cluster itself above the "glass." Unplug the switch blocks and remove the fascia. With that aside, there's two more screws holding the instrument cluster in place. Undo those and gently pull. The connectors are bolted to the body, to make it easy to put the cluster back.
On the back of the instrument cluster there will be a line of black bulb holders. Chack each individually for a blown bulb. I forget which number bulb, left-to-right it was, but check ém all anyway. |
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rusty
Learner
8 Posts
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Posted - 22 Jan 2013 : 11:03:20 AM
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Yep got an error code of 13 o2 sensor so going to replace today and going to recheck the IAC (Idle Air Control) and TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) while we're at it. Hubby had a look at the ECU, took it out so we understand now (thanks to some reading homework on this site) have to reset the ECU and TPS.
Great site this! Will let you's know...didn't think VN's were such headaches, used to own an xd ford and never had an issue. Also used to own a VN toyota lexcen without an issue until the head went! That was a beaut car that used to be owned by a cop and boy did she have some get up and go! Flogged a few uptodate v8's in that thing! RIP to her/him!
Again thanks
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 22 Jan 2013 : 1:03:14 PM
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| VNs generally aren't complicated, once you understand their language. It's when you don't understand their electronics that they can give you elusive problems like this. Once you know them, they will readily tell you what's wrong |
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kingbucktoo
P Plater
54 Posts
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Posted - 23 Jan 2013 : 6:28:28 PM
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| Since you have had the motor overhauled and maybe out of the car, could you check the Earths from the ECU, There are two earths that connect to the motor, one is on the alternator bracket, the other is at the back of the motor passenger side. These earths have been missed before when motors have been in and out of the car, but the main fault this causes "the car wont start". |
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rusty
Learner
8 Posts
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Posted - 24 Jan 2013 : 3:11:30 PM
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Thanks Kingbucktoo, will check that even though we haven't pulled the motor out!
Still waiting for the part to come in which hopefully will be tomorrow...
This whole problem started after a lady reversed into the drivers side panel of my car...when opening the bonnet I found the container that holds the water for the overflow and window washer was cracked and the radiator nozzle at the top was also cracked...I'm just hoping that nothing else was cracked that we can't see! The car started breaking down within 3-5 days after that and hasn't been the same since or ran properly again!
Thanks everyone...will let you's know how we go!
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kingbucktoo
P Plater
54 Posts
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Posted - 24 Jan 2013 : 7:08:04 PM
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I might have a possible reason for all your trouble, In a Series 2 Just below where the radiator/ window washer is also your fuses and relays for the fuel pump, EFI injector, horn, lights, high beam, Engine Fuse... the list goes on.
Someone with Series 1 might be able to confirm the position of the Electrical Fuses and relays.
If you have had a big enough knock to crack the plastic, then you possible have had Radiator coolant over you electrical or you have a dislodged relay or wire.
Intermittent problem could be the EFI relay, or fuel pump relay is dropping out.
Check that your headlights or horn are working and swap these relays in EFI position and Fuel pump position, Just make sure you use the same type of relay, there are 2-3 models of relays in that area.
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 27 Jan 2013 : 04:29:10 AM
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| The position of the radiator header tank is in roughly the same place as the overflow tank on an S2. Check fror broken wires and even corrosion on the fuses and relays. If in doubt, spray the sockets with contact cleaner |
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rusty
Learner
8 Posts
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Posted - 27 Jan 2013 : 08:48:08 AM
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Thanks guys, yep they've been checked like you's have said and apparently all good there! Have to admit the car actually runs more than a day now...doesn't stall, no hit and miss, couple of stalls while driving but other than that, not that much of a headache since installing the harmonic balance sensor, but doesn't start straight up, still doing the flooding thing. When hubby changes a coil pack, she goes and runs good until the next day to go start it!...hubby doing the 02 sensor as I type, let's see if that makes a difference!
So really appreciate the responses and suggestions...this car has been very trying!
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 27 Jan 2013 : 10:31:52 PM
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The O2 sensor is supposed to be a "trim" sensor; it tells the engine computer what's going out the exhaust, which therefore gives it some clues as to how well the fuel burns. It should make it run smoother, even though they can technically run without one.
Try this when you start it, just to see what happens. Turn on the ignition, but don't crank it. If you listen carefully, you'll hear a faint buzzing noise. This will usually stop after 5-10 seconds. I think it's the fuel pressure regulator that shuts the fuel pump off once it gets to "full," but the principle is the same as the float valve in a carburettor or a dunny cistern; a mechanism to shut off the flow if it's not being used. If you have to pump the accelerator after doing that, then there is something seriously wrong in a fuel injected engine. The only question is which part |
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rusty
Learner
8 Posts
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Posted - 28 Jan 2013 : 09:35:47 AM
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Mechknight73, that is exactly what we were thinking, like a manual choke, it's like it doesn't have a choke at all because when it has ran properly in the last week, you can hear the rev's being higher when you first start it but hubby has to do that from the actual throttle body initially...I can't even do this with the accelerator pedal because it just stalls...
Throttle body has been cleaned, it's that initial start up of the morning and then it kicking back in the next day which doesn't happen...changed the fuel injectors even, but not all of them but checked to see if they were cracked etc...I'm wondering what else we could be missing!
O2 sensor made no difference at all...
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rusty
Learner
8 Posts
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Posted - 28 Jan 2013 : 5:00:09 PM
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Well again it wouldn't start! So I tried the horn and left my hand on it...well well well, that was intermittent and not continuous...so changed that relay which was quite hot to touch, don't know if that's normal...horn went good, so took that out and put it in the EFI and away the car started...
So looks like a whole new set of relays even though they look good, so did the Horn one and it wasn't going too crash hot at all.
We will know tomorrow whether this was the problem! |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 28 Jan 2013 : 9:01:11 PM
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Initially, buy one new relay. There is one specific relay that you don't swap with others. Its position on the socket is marked "LP Check." Whatever else you swap it with won't work. I found out the hard way when, while trying to diagnose something else, I swapped the relays around. My rear demister, blower fan and engine fan suddenly didn't work. Put it back in its rightful position and it was fine.
As for the other relays, buy one or two, then test things one by one, by swapping what you think is a dud relay with a new one, and see if it works ok. If they're all shot, obviously replace them all, but this will help you to narrow down what works and what doesn't. |
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rusty
Learner
8 Posts
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Posted - 31 Jan 2013 : 09:48:24 AM
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Well relays are ok...I honestly think it's the box they're sitting in or the computer...come to the conclusion it's an electrical issue not a mechanical one...off to find a auto electrician to check out the computer and relay box, what ever its called...
To get it started properly of late, we just either unhook the computer and rehook up or change a relay and off she goes...but will still stall if revs are too low...
I'll post whatever we find out...
Thanks everyone here!
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 01 Feb 2013 : 4:32:54 PM
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In the meantime, buy a can of contact cleaner, and some really fine wet and dry sandpaper, and get to work cleaning individual terminals. If they've all turned a shade of green to black, there's part of your problem, Spray 'em with contact cleaner, and apply the sandapaper to the rest
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silvermoon
Starting in the driveway
1 Posts
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Posted - 27 Nov 2013 : 8:43:57 PM
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| my vn wont start, ive replaced the coil pack, the crankangle sensor and the fuel pump and have checked all relays and fuses and they are all goods and have no idea why its not working, can anyone help me please its a vn 1990 holden commondore series 1 engine |
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Cartrite
P Plater
73 Posts
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Posted - 28 Nov 2013 : 09:21:35 AM
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| Have you also replaced the DFI module that the coil packs plug into,it and the wire plug that connects it to the loom often fails.The main thing is to methodically work thru each possible cause,has it got a spark,if so is there fuel in the cylinders when cranking.To check for computer error codes is fairly simple. There is always a simple reason why they don't start,finding it can be tricky thou.,good luck. |
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vnturbo
Starting in the driveway
1 Posts
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Posted - 08 Dec 2013 : 8:01:47 PM
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Hey guys new to this whole online stuff,but needed to get to the bottom of this problemim having.
I have just put a series 1 motor(manual) into a series 2 shell(auto),all plugs and earths are connected,i have bridged the that plug that goes to the auto transmission in order to get the car to crank,crank angle sensor is fine,i got spark,fuel pump is priming,also changed the ecu the one that was with the manual motor,fuel is going through the lines,cars cranking but wont turn over.any ideas on what the problem could be? |
Warren |
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Another VN that won't start
