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Pemalite
Starting in the driveway
4 Posts
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 Posted - 30 Jan 2007 : 6:10:19 PM
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Alright, Me and a friend have built a burnout car, What we did was Basically place the VN Series 1 motor, Gearbox, Computer, Looms, Dash etc into a VH Sedan than turned the Sedan into a ute. It has a VN SS Fuel pump, We decided not to put power steering in, VL Diff, Which we welded the Spider gears, So far we haven't had any major dilemmas, (Except when we did a burnout on the burnout pad, the car caught on fire because when the tyre popped, it split the fuel line) Now what I am wondering, is there a way to remove the rev limiter?
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Joogie
Fully Licenced
291 Posts
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Posted - 31 Jan 2007 : 12:58:23 AM
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| Memcal tune... expensive and pointless for a burnout car, plus why remove the limiter? it will blow ur engine up VERY quickly without it, they are there for a reason, and all your effort is down the drain. |
Boost me, and double clutch me so i can get my. Loss of Traction! |
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mouce
National Driver
1525 Posts
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Posted - 31 Jan 2007 : 12:04:33 PM
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First up, where are you doing it?
I don't know of any legal burnout pads in Port Lincoln, just interested. As I'm sure the police who read the forum would be interested too.
Second, the memcal tune isn't too expensive if you do it yourself, BUT...as Joogie said, there's no point for a stock engine that's going to be getting the **** kicked through it.
Why do you WANT to remove the limiter? The VN will keep the wheels spinning well and truly into 4th gear (assuming the engine is in good nick), which has a top speed of somewhere around 180-220kph on redline. There's no need to be hitting speeds like that during a burnout. |
Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like hell - Peter Brock (1945-2006) |
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Pemalite
Starting in the driveway
4 Posts
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Posted - 31 Jan 2007 : 6:11:00 PM
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| There is a legal burnout pad, only open on the first Saturday or Sunday of every month. Blowing the motor isn't a worry, Because the VH Shell was lighter than the VN to begin with, and then having taken almost all of the weight out of the back (Thanks to the ute conversion). The problem was that it kept hitting the rev limiter in 3rd gear, So the next time when my mate took it out onto the pad he kept it in 2nd and tried keeping it just under the rev limiter. Though it didn't work to well. Considering that I picked the motor and gear box up for 100 bucks, Plus being good mates with the local wrecker, And having other connections around town... Its not hard to grab another motor cheaply (Plus the spare in my own VN Commodore, and another spare motor in the backyard). Is there any software for me to plug my laptop into, and change settings and what not? (I have the cable) |
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mouce
National Driver
1525 Posts
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Posted - 31 Jan 2007 : 6:57:56 PM
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Cool...next time in in the area, I'll try to time it so I can see the 'ute' in action 
Okay...so let me get this straight, the problem is that it kept hitting the limiter in 3rd? Why not change into 4th? That's what it's there for after all.
Also, the Delco 1227808 (ecm) isn't smart enough to be able to reprogram on the fly like that. You need to get a chip burner, a binary editor (TunerPro works well), a chip and of course know how to change the memcal chip. If you can stick it out for a few more weeks I'll have a full how-to on making your own memcals, but it's not ready to be released yet.
The risk of blowing the engine is not because of the load placed on it by the car, but rather the fact that it's going to be running at excessive speeds. There's two ways to kill an engine (really), one is to place too much load on it (and if that happens normally the gearbox/clutch/diff lets go first), the second is to run it too fast for too long. When you think about what speed the internals of the engine are moving at even at 5000rpm, it's no wonder that things blow up. At anything much past 5000rpm you'll be running into valve flutter which can lead to some interesting problems, the stresses on the pistons are huge at these speeds. The weight of the piston changes directions 10000 times a minute, or 166 times a second (if you want to think about it like that). You keep running a motor at those speeds and it's only a matter of time until something snaps, and at that speed/force...god help anyone standing near it when it blows. Best case scenario is that you'll need a new front end for the car.
This forum is about looking after cars, not abusing them...while it sounds like a damn good burnout car (EVERYONE TAKE NOTE THAT IT'S BEING USED LEGALLY), it's still abuse. If you leave it stock and look after it, it should be able to shread many tyres for a long time to come. BUT...if you remove the limiter and rev it out further...you'll be changing engines more often than you change tyres. |
Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like hell - Peter Brock (1945-2006) |
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Pemalite
Starting in the driveway
4 Posts
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Posted - 31 Jan 2007 : 10:35:14 PM
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Alot of people are actually surprised its a V6, Even more people are surprised its a VN motor in a VH, Still Even just increasing the rev limiter just by 500 would help a ton, And it doesn't bother me if I blow the engine in all honesty! I get all these ford fanatics saying "Its only a holden" or a few mates that say they hate VN's because everyone thrashes them, And they are way to common, But After driving a friends VN SS Group A replica, At lower speeds (Say from 0 to 100) I reckon the Buick actually has more guts. Still Its a trial thing, And mess around thing, Any mods that can be performed from next to nothing, helps. And I do realize the strain it puts on the motor, But its not like the motor wont be going through allot of strain anyway. (Its sole purpose is for burnouts once a month, Nothing less nothing more, not even street legal - And we expect something to break and are prepared for it).
Still for an 18 year old motor thats done 380 thousand km's it doesn't do bad. And eventually I'll post some pictures of the process of implanting the Buick and everything into the VH even turning it into the ute :)
And I look forward to the guide! Also another question, Is there any software, that will allow me to "see" what the computer sees? For instance, Electrical current, or fuel mixing's etc? (Even if it doesn't allow me to change/modify anything).
Thanks! |
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mouce
National Driver
1525 Posts
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Posted - 31 Jan 2007 : 11:28:11 PM
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If all you want is to SEE the ALDL stream from the computer then http://winaldl.joby.se/ is damn good. It's free, it's small and it's easy to use, can't ask for much more than that.
And as for what you think about the V6 being more punchy than the V8, you're actually right. At street legal speeds the S1 V6 outperforms the V8, which is why holden detuned it slightly for the S2 engine.
Have a look around on the forum, I've done a few rants about the V6 vs the V8.
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Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like hell - Peter Brock (1945-2006) |
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SWEET
Fully Licenced
600 Posts
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Posted - 01 Feb 2007 : 01:04:13 AM
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| mouce r u saying a stock v6 s1 can beat a stock v8 and wats a aldl. b4dn xxxx |
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YLD50L
P Plater
28 Posts
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Posted - 01 Feb 2007 : 10:32:14 AM
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| i could understand a v6 having more repsonse off the line rather then that of a stock v8... i believe they only had 165kw at the fly.. not much at all... what do the v6's have |
Who would have though petrol would cost so dam much |
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Pemalite
Starting in the driveway
4 Posts
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Posted - 01 Feb 2007 : 2:09:23 PM
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WinALDL works like a charm :)
Sweet, When I took a mates VN SS out onto the pad, And then taking the burnout car onto the pad, The V6 had better "Instant smoke". But I thought that was more to do with power to weight ratio. |
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mouce
National Driver
1525 Posts
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Posted - 01 Feb 2007 : 10:47:54 PM
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The V6 has insane amounts of torque that are available really low in the rev range. That's where it beats the V8, not so much the power to weight ratio but the torque to weight ratio.
Everyone should know that torque is what launches you off the line, so to street legal speeds it's torque that's more important than power.
The S1 V6 in particular was a rather savage little beastie of a motor, sadly GMHA decided to 'dumb it down' a tad for the S2. Despite the extra 2kw of power on offer in the S2, the peak of the torque curve has been moved higher in the rev range, which means they don't lanuch quite as hard as the S1. Kinda sneaky really, a more powerful car that is slower off the line.
The V8, takes a while to wind up. And by the time it's at full noise you're either at the speed limit, or already been pulled over by the cops. The V6 can use all it's torque much more readily than the V8.
So yes, the stock V6 will hit the speed limit before a stock V8, nine times out of ten. That's assuming that both cars have the same transmission and driver. If the clown in the V8 doesn't know how to shift then my mum's excel would probably get there first. The same can be said for the V6 (and I've actually proven it, our excel FLIES!!!).
It's also been found by a few people who have raced the VN's around tracks that the V6 is normally the better of the two for accelerating out of corners. The V8 will normally pull it back in on the long straights, but for instant acceleration, the V6 is normally more friendly.
Generally I've found that for speeds up to 100kph the V6 is still in front, from 100 to about 140kph they are fairly even, after that the V8 will get to 200kph first. And before anyone asks, NO I did NOT do that on public roads, it was a PRIVATE airfield that I was lucky enough to have access to for a while. I have also confirmed the tests using the computer game; Need For Speed Hot Pursuit 2. |
Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like hell - Peter Brock (1945-2006) |
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YLD50L
P Plater
28 Posts
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Posted - 02 Feb 2007 : 11:34:01 AM
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| mouce have you or do you know the 0-100 km/h time... i know my car (v8) does it in 6.2 seconds but mine is a sv5000 spec |
Who would have though petrol would cost so dam much |
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mouce
National Driver
1525 Posts
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Posted - 05 Feb 2007 : 12:35:17 PM
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The SV5000 is not a standard SS now is it?
I know that my V6 does a standing 100kph time of on or just under 8 seconds. That's with my g/f in the passenger seat with a stop watch. That is also keeping it to below 4500rpm, because that's when I hit valve bounce (stupid dead valve springs).
The exact SS time I'm not 100% sure on, but I believe that it's only a tiny bit slower than the V6 to 100kph.
Anything after that and the V8 starts gaining fairly quickly though. |
Bite off more than you can chew, and chew like hell - Peter Brock (1945-2006) |
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YLD50L
P Plater
28 Posts
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Posted - 06 Feb 2007 : 8:38:08 PM
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| i may have to redo my 0-100 time... i will let you guys know what it is.. |
Who would have though petrol would cost so dam much |
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